We have a response from the MOT

I have to start with this.  I didn't think I would get any response for the MOT.  I thought our issue would get ignored, as did many of you.  I was wrong.

I received a very well written letter from Paul Harbottle the Director.  I have put the letter on our OTT web site and you can review it by clicking here.  I have to say, I am impressed that we have actually received a response.

I hope to review the letter with you at the September Outing this weekend because we DIDN't get the answer we wanted

Thank you Minister Wynne for your attention to this.

Good news and Bad news - mostly Bad

The good news is that I got a quick response from the Minister's office.  The bad news is the reply didn't provide the name(s) that I requested.  In my experience in business, if someone specific is not assigned to a particular issue it is most likely to get ignored or shelved.

It is an election year, so I can understand that Minister Wynne is pretty busy with the election.  However, I do expect that the MOT to address this issue.  They say they ARE addressing the issue.

Here is the Minister's response - you decide!

"On behalf of the Honourable Kathleen Wynne Minister of Transportation, thank you for your second e-mail. I am writing to confirm that your e-mail has been forwarded to the program area in the Ministry that deals with your concerns for review.

Thank you again for bringing your concerns to the attention of the Minister; she always appreciates hearing from members of the public."

Let me know your thoughts.

First. I would like to welcome members of the Ontario Good Sam's to the Blog.  The Ontario Trillium Travellers (OTT) and I appreciate your support on getting changes made to licencing of motorhomers.  If we can get the MOT to actually listen, the decision should be easy for them.  If you've read my previous Blog posts you'll see that our request is not rocket science - it is completely consistent with the licencing practices in the vast majority of all U.S. states and Canadian Provinces.

I wrote a follow up Email today and, based on the responses I have received from the MOT previously, you can expect me to post their response within a few days.

I will be at the September OTT outing this week but I will have internet access. I hope to get a response and be able to review our progress with everyone at our meeting on Saturday.

So here is the text of my Email:

"Dear Minister Wynne:

I am writing to follow up on my Email of August 31st.

In your response to my Email you stated:  “It is important to the ministry and has been forwarded to the appropriate ministry office for review.”  I would appreciate it if you would provide me with the name of the office and the name and Email address of the manager of that office.

Since I wrote the August 31st Email, I have had an opportunity to research licencing (licensing) practices of U.S. and other Canadian jurisdictions.  Our request to change the licencing requirements by exempting operators of large motorhomes (used for recreational purposes) from having to obtain a commercial “D”- like licence appears to be in compliance with the current practices.

  

Again, I look forward to posting your response on my Blog and the Ontario Trillium Travellers (OTT) web site.  Thank you.

Yours truly,

The current licencing requirements - MOT

I am in the process of trying to get this changed.  I have Emailed the Minister of Transportation on August 31st and I will follow up next week.  In the meantime, I thought I would post the MOT's current licencing link:
(Current Licencing Required for Motorhomers)

They have previously taken this link down but it is back up again now.

The Minister's Response

I thought I would post the Minister Wynne's response to our letter.  This is just an acknowledgement of receipt of my Email.  If I don't get an update within a week, I will write again quoting the data from US jurisdictions.  Hopefully, our letter will not just get shelved.

Here is Minister Wynne's response:


"Thank you for your e-mail. It is important to the ministry and has been forwarded to the appropriate ministry office for review.
Once again, thank you for bringing your concerns to Minister Wynne’s attention. She always appreciates hearing from members of the public. "

If, in fact, they actually do read and take it seriously, I believe they will realize that requiring a Z and D is excessive for the RV community.
If you haven't looked, check out the link to requirements in the US states in a previous post.

Licencing for RVs in U.S. States

This is really good news.  You want to check out this link:  RVs Exempt

This site has done all the research and has published it's results.  The net - all RVs (Motorhomes) are exempt from the weight limitations.  A commercial licence like the Ontario "D" licence is not required.

It looks like ALLthe states understand that motorhomes are not commercial vehicles

Letter to the MOT

I have sent the letter requesting the licencing change to Minister Wynne today.  For OTT members, I have sent a copy to Cathy, the OTT Secretary, and asked her to forward it on to everyone.

I have to say, that the ministry has been very responsive to all of my requests so far but I suspect that the response to the letter will take a bit more time than usual.  I will post all responses as soon as I get them.

Licencing requriements for Motorhomes in other provinces

While I was waiting for a response from the ministry on Email protocol and before I send my Email requesting a change to the licencing requirements for motorhomes,  I decided to have a cursory look at web sites from other provinces and territories in Canada.  I've provided references if you want to investigate for yourselves.

Province	Required Licence and reference data	Ontario Equivalent
British Columbia	Class 5 or 7 Licence                             http://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/getting-licensed/types-licences#5 Text “Motor homes (including those with more than 2 axles)”	G-Licence
Alberta	Class 5                                                   http://www.servicealberta.ca/Drivers_Licence.cfm#Class_5_Licence text "(2-axle - Cars, Light Trucks, Motor Homes or Mopeds)"	G-Licence
Saskatchewan	Class 7                   http://www.sgi.sk.ca/sgi_pub/drivers_licences/classifications/class_7.htm 3-axle motorhomes	G-Licence
Manitoba	Class 5                                   http://www.mpi.mb.ca/english/brochures/brochures.html  select "Manitoba's Class Licence System" Then go to page 15 of the Brochure Motorhome not mentioned specifically	G-Licence
Quebec	Class 5                                                   http://www.saaq.gouv.qc.ca/en/driver_licence/classes/class_5.php text "motor home; "            Note weight not specified	G-Licence
New Brunswick	Class 5 NB Reference                       text "any three-axle motor vehicle, other than a truck, of a type designed for use in the construction, maintenance and repair of highways, whether or not the vehicle is to be so used"	G-Licence
Nova Scotia	Class 3                                                   http://www.gov.ns.ca/snsmr/paal/rmv/paal269.asp text  "Class 3 -- for driving vehicles or vehicle-trailer combinations weighing greater than 14,000 kilograms;" Note: no reference to Air Brakes	D-Licence
PEI	Class 3                                   http://www.gov.pe.ca/tir/index.php3?number=20138&lang=E text "Class 3 - Straight truck and trailer combination over 14,000 kg" Note: no reference to Air Brakes	D-Licence
Yukon	Class 5                                                   http://icandrive.ca/yukon/class-5-license/ ·         Class 5 license and drive with full driving privileges	G-Licence
NWT	Class 5           http://www.dot.gov.nt.ca/_live/pages/wpPages/drivers_vehicles_home.aspx Click on Basic Licence Drivers Handbook then page down to "Class 5" on page 14	G-Licence

Please feel free to check the data and let me know what you think.  This by no means, is in-depth research - it is just cruising the provinces' web sites.

Gaining support for the licencing change

Last night I talked to Gaetan Ladouceur, the Provincial Director of the Ontario Good Sam Club.  He supports our position on changing the licencing requirements for operating large motorohomes.  This is a hot issue with them as well.

Ontario Good Sam's will be having a Samboree this weekend.  He will bring up the issue with the club members who drive large motorhomes.  I suspect, like the OTT, they will support our effort for change.  I have Email him a draft of my MOT letter.  It's nice to know that we are not alone.  Check out the Ontario Good Sam web site

drafting the letter to MOT

I have drafted the letter to the Ministry of Transportation requesting a change to the licencing for operating large motorhomes from a D-licence to a more appropriate G-licence.  I will wait a day or two, take the time to ponder and review it before I send it.

Watch for updates.

OTT appoints me to discuss licencing requirement with the MOT

I love the monthly Ontario Trillium Travellers (OTT) outings.  Getting together with friends and sharing experiences is always exciting.  A new Ontario campground every month, provides us with new things to see and do.

This August outing was the not much different until we had a meeting and discussed the licencing requirements to drive motorhomes of the size of ours.  You see, Bettyann and I had just got the required D-Licence and shared how costly and down-right ridiculus it was for the MOT to require us to have it.

Like us most folks didn't even know that there was such a requirement.  So, at our business meeting on Saturday the OTT appointed me to send a requiest to the ministry to reconsider the licencing requirements for Class A motorhomers.

If you have been following my blog you'll know that Bettyann and I documented our experience and our opinion about requiring a D-licence for RVers.  Having presented our findings and discussing with the OTT they share our point of view on this. 

... Now on to the job of presenting our view to the ministry.  I'll keep you all posted.

What should be the licencing requirements to operate large motorhomes? My opinion.

Having obtained the required licencing to legally operate our motorhome,  I would like to reflect on those requirements.  Currently, the Ontario MOT requires that everyone driving motorhomes and towing a vehicle with a total weigh exceeding 11,000 Kgs (24,250lbs)  have a "D" commercial truck drivers licence.  I believe this to be unreasonable.  It also has a major impact on the RV industry who are already suffering from a slow economy and high fuel prices.
 D- licence requirements come with some major assumptions which are reflected in both the the D-Licnece training and in the ultimate testing by the DriveTest Centre.
With both Bettyann and I having gone through the training and having obtained the required D-licence to operate our motorhome,  we believe that it is unnecessary and definately overkill.   If every retired person, with the dream to purchase a motorhome and travel North America,  after 50 years of work, has to obtain a commercial truck drivers licence - that dream will be unnecessilarliy shattered.
The D-licence requirements is clearly focused on young healthy adults seeking employment driving a truck.  Both the training and testing reflect this.
Here is what I see as some of the assumptions - there are many more:
1.  The truck you will be driving will be owned by someone else and will not necessarily be well maintained.
2.  The driver has very little experience driving and only recently obtained a G-licence and may not be familiar all the road signs, rules and commercial truck requirements.
3.  There is a necessity to know about the mechanics of the brakes, engine components and truck sturctures.
4. etc etc etc
Let face facts,  motorhomers have made a substantial financial investment to own a motorhome.  They don't rent them and they maintain  them well.  Given it's size and cost the largest demographic are retired seniors with many years of driving experience.  I have not been able to find any statistics (I suspect that's because they don't exist) but I also suspect that the highway accident rates would be significantly less than any commercial vehicle.   Before they move, they know exactly how the vehicle will  perform.  The things you check, on a pre-trip are vastly different than those on a commercial truck.
The D-licence and the $1000, per driver, that you will spend to acquire it, is severe over-kill.  In order to obtain a D-licence you are required to:
1. Have a G-licence
2. Obtain an Air Brake Endorsement (Z-endorsement) which you have to renew through a written test every 5 years.
3. Pass an MOT required medical.
4. Obtain a driver abstract
5.  Pass the D-licence written test
6.  Pay for a training course to obtain information on the requirements to drive a commercial vehicle.   Yes, you need this to pass both the written and the driving test.
7.  Know nothing on what you actually need to operate your motorhome.
So, having gone through the process what do I believe you actually need to drive your motorhome?  A G-licence!  You've actually learned a lot by having driven various vehicles over 50 years.
By the time you finish your test drive, purchase your motorome and drive it off the dealer's lot you will have all the knowledge you need to operate your Air Brakes.  After all, the G-licence doesn't require you to understand your hydraulic brakes.  My motorhome is 40 feet long and 42,000lbs.  I know the minute I get in it, that I need to be careful how I turn it so I don't damage it taking out a stop sign cornering.  I know I have to leave extra space to accomadate stopping with the extra weight - you learn this really, really fast probably in the first 5 minutes of driving.

Fire in the Grill

Fire at the Grill

It's a sad day.   We are remembering the Margarita Grill which recently burned to the ground.  The owner Tommy was hospitalized after collapsing on the bridge on the way.  It was reported that Tommy was worried for his 62 employees.  Sammy, Tommy's son and master magician, is dealing with his dad's health as well as the loss of the business.  Our thoughts are with him.

The Margarita Grill was our favourite place in North America to eat.  It was a great atmosphere with great people and great food not to mention the best Margaritas in the world.

You can read more about the passing of this American Icon here:  The Grill Burns

We spend our winters in Crystal River and the Grill was the place we ate at least twice a week.  We have great memories of enjoying meals and Margaritas with family and friends.  It was the go to place when we had guests.


Today we raise a glass to the Margarita Grill.  I hope that Sammy chooses to rebuild - Please!

The Quest for the "D" - We got the "D" - Quest Complete!

What a successful day!  We arrived at the DriveTest Centre at about 8:15AM - Timmys in hand.  Dale and Don were already there waiting with the truck.  They offered to take us though the pre-trip again before the actual examiner got there.  Both Bettyann and I declined - we were ready!

Bettyann goes through the checks as John watches

At 9Am sharp, the examiner, John, emerged from the building and headed to the truck.  Bettyann was first and unlike the previous drive and check I was not allowed to manage the ladder.  John was very understanding about that and handled the ladder for her.  I think the adrenaline was flowing so Bettyann cruised through all the checks.  She didn't forget the "stick and start" today.  After, almost destroying one of the chalks she was off on a drive through Oshawa and onto the 401.  Twenty minutes later she had her "D-Licence."  No pressure on me.

I cruised through the checks and the drive and was luckily enough to pass too.  So, after two months of sitting in storage the Vectra is finally going back on the road.

Dale and Don From Durham

I may have mentioned this before but I have to say it again.  Choosing to take the D-Licence course at Durham was an excellent decision.  The reason I made that decision is that we couldn't take the chance of failure.  Dale and Don directed us through every aspect from the basic requirements, medical, the written test, and the drive test.  Had either Bettyann or I failed, I think they would have felt worse than we would.  And ,we would have felt really, really bad.  But really, there was no chance of that.  Thanks again to the Durham Team - Dale and Don.

The Quest for the "D" - Pre-test Day

Well, today was only an hour each.  We were ready!

Bettyann - the ladder is the hardest part

Don ran the session as if we were getting the test at the DriveTest Centre.  He let us take him through the pre-trip check without comment and then we went for a drive.  Don just gave us directions and we drove with lots of confidence today.  If this were the real test we both would have passed.

It's funny though, even with memorizing all the checks we still forgot a couple of things.  No major stuff but we thought we had this down solid.  I, for example, forgot to tell him that the low beams were working and had to go back to the inspection sticker out of sequence.  Bettyann was much better although she did mess up on the "stick and start" thing.

Both of us have to remember tomorrow NOT to turn right on a red light during the exam - the risk is too high that opposing traffic will get a green arrow before our turn.  And, I have to get into the left lane when turning left on to a one way street.

Neither of us have trouble actually driving, turning and backing up.  We are feeling really confident now.


The real thing is tomorrow AM. The one downside is that I will not be allowed to manage the ladder that helps Bettyann get up and down from the truck.   Bettyann is on first and I'm on next and Dale and Don will get there early for some last minute coaching and to cheer us both on.

The Quest for the "D" - Waiting for the Pre-Test

With the pre-test coming up on Wednesday and the actual test coming up on Thursday morning, Bettyann and I are pretty confident.  The Durham College Team of Dale and Don have done a great job with us.

There are two parts to the test, the pre-trip and the actual drive and we are both ready.  Bettyann re-wrote the pre-test script and for the last two week we've been going over and over it in our mind.  We are ready!  The Drive should not be that much of a problem unless the traffic on Oshawa is overwhelming or the pedestrians all want to cross the street at the same time .  I really don't expect that.

This time we will still be with the Durham Team but they will not provide any input - just like the real test.  All the comments  will come after the drive.

Licencing for us motorhomers - NO MORE CONFUSION

As you all know I wrote to the MOT a few days ago looking for some clear answers to what licence is required.  When I didn't get a response I sent an Email directly to the Ministers office and I got a reply within a couple of hours.  Thank you to Kelly Baker, the Minister's Communication Advisor for clearing this up.  Here is the text of  the Email:

Hi Fred, here are the responses to your questions

The amendment of Regulation 340/94 – Driver’s Licence’s under the Highway Traffic Act is for towed RVs only.  Motor homes remain subject to the same licensing requirements as before July 1, 2011.

Q1: Many of us have diesel motor homes with air brakes that themselves exceed the 11,000kg weight limit and in addition there is a car in tow.  What licence is required to operate this vehicle?

A1: A diesel motor home with air brakes that exceeds 11,000 kg weight limit requires a Class “D” with “Z” air endorsement licence if the towed weight does not exceed 4,600 kg.  If the car being towed were to exceed 4,600 kg, a Class “A” driver’s licence with “Z” air endorsement would be required.

Q2: Some have gasoline motor homes without air brakes weighing less than 11,000kg but when towing a car the weight exceeds the 11,000kg.  What licence is required to operate this vehicle?

A2: Without air brakes a “Z” air endorsement is not required, however, when the towed weight is less than 4,600 kg and the combined weight of motor home and car exceeds 11,000 kg, a Class “D” drivers licence is required.

Q3: In order to apply for a D-Licence I believe you must have a Z-endorsement(Air Brakes) and a medical - has this changed for the RV community?

A3: A “Z” endorsement is not required to apply for a Class “D” driver’s licence, nor to hold a Class “D” driver’s licence.  A medical examination report is required when applying for a Class “D” driver’s licence.  This has not changed for the RV community. 

One good thing - when Bettyann and I went to write our the "D" test they asked us to show our Z.  I don't think they knew about point 3.

Pre-trip Checks in a Motorhome

We are still waiting on an Email from the MOT clarifying the licencing requirements for motorhomes.  In the mean time,  I thought I would review the pre-trip in a motorhome.  Although, the checks may be important to a commercial vehicle being driven by multiple drivers they are not really relevant to a privately owned motorhome.  So, lets have some fun...

First the Cold Engine Check:

The hood should be open, the engine off.  You now have to check the frame, the suspension, liquid leaking from anywhere and the front tires ( inside wall, tread and outside wall ).  Check for excess play in the steering and all the fluids.  It's up on the rack so I can see the tires.  Now, where is the engine again - I have the hood open.  No that's not it - that's the generator.  What's a brake chamber and where do I find it?  Oil, Transmission?  Dipsticks???  There's nothing in here!  I can't get down and crawl under the motorhome to look at the frame - first, it's dangerous and second, I'll get lightheaded when I get back up.  Not good to drive when you're lightheaded.

Next the Brake Check:

Get into the motorhome.  Wait!!!  It's too high to crawl up with out a ladder and it not safe to be in it while it's up on the rack. You can do it though with the help of one of the nice Freightliner technicians.  If you do get in now you have to check the Air Pressure (must be 90 to 100 psi)  then release the parking brake and put THE STICK on the brake peddle.  What Stick?
Now out of the motorhome - don't forget the ladder it's a long way down from the motorhome when it's up on the rack.  But luckily, when you do get down you can get to the walker to support the new knees, or hips while you continue your checks.
Back underneath - watch your head - the MOT is OK with you getting a concussion though.  Check the brakes are in adjustment and there are no leaks.  What's adjustment???  Now drain the wet tank - it was rainy when we drove in so I think all the tanks are wet including the propane.  I'm sorry Mr McGuinty, I am not going to drain the propane tank.  I just paid $1.30 a litre for that propane.  I'm getting back in the drivers seat to finalize the brake check.  Checking the air pressure - I haven;t lost more that 3 psi per minute while I was out so now I can remove the stick and start the engine to fan the brakes.   As I am pumping the brakes as fast as I can while watching the air pressure to make sure the the warning light comes (by 55 psi) on and the parking brake button releases (before 20 psi),  the Freightliner service manager is screaming.  Apparently,   the service technicians are collapsing from the exhaust of the diesel engine.   

Now for the Circle Check:

The engine is still running the right signal is on and the lights are on high beam.  We get out of the motorhome again - where is that nice technician?  Oh, I guess I'll just have to use the ladder!   Check that you have a licence with a valid sticker - don't forget the sticker is on the back plate.  I know you had them when you left the campground but the MOT wants you to make sure it didn't fall off.  Check the high beams and the right signal - It's always good to check the high beams even if yo don't drive at night.  It is important to make sure that the right signal is also working even though you always leave the left signal on when driving in Florida so you don't look out of place.  Again you have to crawl under to check the frame - I know, Freightliner checks it every year and actually knows what to look for - the MOT whats you to get the exercise of getting under the vehicle and back out - hey, it's as good as Yoga!  
If by now you haven't collapsed from the diesel fumes you can go to the back of the motorhome - here it's a little tricky so pay attention.  You can't check to see if the car is attached securely - the MOT doesn't care.  You don't have to make sure the car is in neutral and that the engine is not running (right Barry?).  Apparently, they don't care if you have a brake buddy either.
I don't know about you but Freightliner checks my tires once every year.  They adjust the air pressure to the weight of the motorhome.  I don't need to do that every day I drive.

Back in the cab (that's the drivers seat).

Now you have to go left to right on your instrument panel and call out each instrument - you want to make sure that none of them mysteriously disappeared while you were camped over the winter.  Don't forget the defrosters if for some reason these don't work you may have to use the fans until you can get if fixed.  Finally,  Mr McGuinty wants to make sure you have all the documents you are required to have.  Let me see,  the annual inspection sticker, the CVOR - where did I put them???..  I'm retired now and my memory is not as good as it used to be.








 

Licencing for us motorhomers - I AM CONFUSED

I'm still confused!

The MOT web page that seemed to clear up the confusion and that seemed to require us to get a D-Licence has been removed.  Check out the link in my previous posts - they now give a 404 error, meaning no page found.

There are some new rules posted for 5th wheelers but still nothing for us.  So, I wrote to the Ministry and asked a few questions here is the text:

"I have a question in light of the new RV Drivers licencing rules announced July 1, 2011.  I manage the web site for the Ontario Trillium Travellers, a group of RVers who own Winnebago Class A Motorhomes. I also write an RV Blog. I would like a clear answer that I can publish on the following questions:

 1.  Many of us have diesel motorhomes with air brakes that themselves exceed the 11,000kg weight limit and in addition there is a car in tow.  What licence is required to operate this vehicle?

 2.  Some have gasoline motorhomes without air brakes weighing less than 11,000kg but when towing a car the weight exceeds the 11,000kg.  What licence is required to operate this vehicle? 

3.  In order to apply for a D-Licence I believe you must have a Z-endorsement(Air Brakes) - has this changed?"

I hope to get an answer soon.  I'll let you all know.

The Quest for the "D" - Day 3 in the Truck

It was an good day and a good drive.  Especially, when we thought we didn't have to do it.  The encouraging news dominated our emotions throughout the morning and early afternoon.  It was terrific to know that we didn't need to get the D- Licence and that we were there because we wanted to finish what we started.

We went through the Pre-trip check with lots more confidence and less anxiety.  So, that was a good thing.  We wouldn't want to end up with a half million dollar paper weight.

Bettyann went first, her checks went well but her knees are still hurting through the brake procedure. Then Dale took her on a drive through Oshawa - do you know that if you're driving a truck that there is a part of Oshawa that is a free roller coaster ride?   I mean, it's a good thing you have a seat belt because you will be bouncing for quite a distance.  She handled it well.

Do you know that no matter how well you've memorized the check list you always forget something - I forgot 2 things both of which were important - luckily Dale was there to point them out.  Getting much better though.

I also did the roller coaster route - thanks for the warning Bettyann.  Glad you went first.  And, we are both glad we didn't quit.

Feel free to use the comment button below to let us know how you feel about what you read.

The Quest for the "D" - Happy then Sad

We got every excited today when Dale from Durham College, before our 2 hour session in the truck, told us that as of July 1st the Ministry of Transportation changed the licencing requirements for RVers and the we would no longer require a "D" licence.   I have to say that we were jumping for joy thinking to Ministry finally got something right.  In spite of that though, we are going to continue to get our "D"

I couldn't wait to get home and check it out.  First thing I did was check out the reference In my first Blog post.  The Mimistry has pulled the link (we get the 404 error).  This was encouraging!!!!

I called the Minister's office at Queens Park and asked for the official press release.  I wanted to make sure that I got the correct information before I wrote this Blog post.  They responded very quickly with their Press Release.  I talked to Bob Nichols in the Communications Branch who the Emailed the official release entitled "Making It Easier For RV Drivers to Enjoy Summer."

I was highly DISAPPOINTED!!!!!

If you're a 5th wheeler this has got to be great news but if you drive a Class A motorhome and you tow a car, the limitation of 11,000kgs is still there.  But now, with the original web page removed and this new link:

http://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2011/06/making-it-easier-for-rv-operators-to-enjoy-summer.html

it has gone back to confusion about what licence is really needed.  Here is what the link has to say to Class A motorhome owners.



"Until now, Ontario drivers have needed a class A licence to tow RVs that weigh more than 4,600 kg. With this change, Ontarians can tow and operate RVs with a full class G licence as long as:

• The combined weight of the motor vehicle and RV is not more than the current 11,000 kg limit
• The RV is attached to the motor vehicle by a fifth wheel hook-up
• Only one vehicle is being towed
• The RV meets Transport Canada manufacturing standards
• The RV is being towed for personal use only."

Just to clarify - you still need a "D."  I THINK!?!?

The Ministry got it almost right.

The Quest for the "D" - Day 2 in the Truck

We both did very well today.  Over the past week, Bettyann rewrote the pre-trip check list and we both did a good job memorizing it.  In spite of that though, there are a few things (not major) that we forgot and we took longer then we should to go through it in the truck.  A couple of things we learned today helped.

It is important to know and remember where each of the 3 check procedures (Cold Engine check, Brake check and Circle check) start and stop.  For example: the Brake check starts with the yellow button and ends with the yellow button and you are then onto the Circle check.  Doing each check in a particular sequence also helps.

Bettyann is still having difficulty climbing in and out of the cab, even with the ladder, and with her knees as she does the "Fanning of the brakes."   

We did the checks twice - once before we leave and then again after the drive.  I really think we have them down now.  We'll know on Monday when we get our 3rd training session. 

And for you other RVers, No, the checks don't include raising the Jacks, bringing in the slides or securing the toaster and the bedroom TV so they don't hit you in the head if you have to stop quickly.

The Quest for the "D" - OMG

I have been thinking more about the D-Licence requirement for RVers.  It seems to me that virtually every member of the OTT will need a "D."  Taking a look at the Winnebago web site, even the smallest Class A motorhome with a gas engine approaches the "D" weight limit of 11,000 kg (24,200lbs).  Even though these coaches don't exceed the limit by themselves, as soon as you attach a tow vehicle, and we all do, you immediately exceed the limit.  Here is the link:

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/recreational-vehicles/part2a.shtml

This is the acutual text:

"A motor home towing a trailer and/or a motor vehicle:

Class "G" if the combination weighs 11,000 kg (24,250 lbs) or less,

Class "D" if the combination weighs more than 11,000 kg, or

Class "A" if the weight of the towed vehicle or the combined weight of the towed vehicles exceeds 4,600 kgs (10,141 lbs)."

Here is and example:  Checking out the Winnebago web site, the smallest Adventurer (gas engine, hydraulic brakes) has a GVRW of 22000lbs and a small car (e.g. my Honda Element) @1657kgs  and you are at 25645lbs.  You have now exceeded the limit requiring you to have a "D"

Now you have some big problems that will cost you about $1,000:

1.  To get a "D" licence you need to pass a medical.  You can't get a "D" without it.

2.  Even if you only have a gasoline chassis with standard brakes you will need an Air Brake (Z) endorsement - you can't write the test without it.

3.  You then need to write and pass a D-Licence written test.

4.  Now, you need to take a driving test.  My guess - it will be the first driving test you've had in 50 years.  This test must be done on a truck that looks, feels, and in reality is not in anyway related to the motorhome you own.  The truck is a diesel with air brakes!

The good news is that after you get the "D" you will be able to get a job as a furniture mover.  Oh, I forgot, you're retired!

Bettyann and I are sure glad that Durham College is there to help.  Target date for our "D" is July 14th.

The Quest for the "D" - First Day in the Truck

First, let me say that the Durham College Driver Trainers, Dale and Don, are doing a great job preparing Bettyann and me to pass the test. This was day 1 of 3 - 2 hour driving days included with the course.  So I'll post more as we go.

I find it difficult, though, and have to remind myself that I only have to do this once.  So, for us RVers it is important to keep a positive attitude during this process.

Having been though the first day of pre-checks, I have to wonder what would happen if you showed up at the DriveTest Centre in your motorhome because most of the things they are testing for are not doable on a motorhome.  When is the last time you crawled under your motorhome and checked your Frame for cracks or that your brakes are in adjustment?

The pre-trip involves getting in and out of the truck 4 or 5 times before you drive.  I have pictures of Bettyann crawling in and out and I think that everyone will appreciate that the pictures have no audio.  It is a little different than entering the motorhome with the automatic steps;  Durham Colllege does have a ladder that makes it somewhat easier.

Part of the pre-test is the documentation.   Apparently, they will be looking for documents like the "Schedule 1", the CVOR,  annual Inspection sticker and the pre-trip inspection book which you have to sign.  Good Luck with those.  They also want the licence, registration and insurance which would be no problem.


No RVer should have difficulty driving the truck or backing up between orange cones, although, Don is there to remind you how far you should stop behind the car in front, what lane you are supposed to be in and to constantly check your mirrors.

Day one is now complete and we are going home to review that pre-test checklist.  Great job Don - Thank you.

The Quest for the 'D"

As RVers with a large motorhome it has been unclear exactly what licence you needed to drive.  When we purchased our Winnebago Vectra in 2004 the dealer prompted us to get an Air Brake Endorsement.   We picked that up with a course at Durham College in September 2004 and have been happily driving it, all over North America, ever since.

About a year ago at an Ontario Trillium Travellers (OTT) outing someone brought out that to drive a motorhome  over 25000LBs GVW (11000KG) you needed a 'D' Licence.  We debated this on and off for a few days and came to the conclusion that we really didn't know.  A quick search of the MOT web site provided absolutely no additional insight.   This all changed at the OTT's May outing this year.

Again, we debated the issue.  One of the members reported that he had talked to an MOT friend who had explained that a 'D'  would be and is necessary.  So ... back to the MOT web site.

This time it was very clear.  Here is the link:  http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/recreational-vehicles/part2a.shtml .

Armed with this new knowledge., Bettyann and I parked the motorhome and searched out the best way to proceed.  Unfortunately, we had to miss the June outing.  Barry B.  suggested a guy who would do the training and allow you to use your motorhome for the training and the test - it was only a few (about $300) hundred.  Not bad considering...

Bettyann and I had taken our Z-Endorsement at Durham College back in 2004 and that was a great experience given that most of the information you study is useless except to pass the ministry's test.   We went to class, they provided a truck and the same day we had passed the test.  That was good for 5 years.

So we searched the Durham College site for more than a 1/2 and hour and couldn't find anything on driver training but eventually found the exact link:  http://www.corporatetrainingservices.ca/driver-training/licensed/ 


At $775 ($1550 for both of us) it was a little expensive but, given our earlier experience, we enrolled for the June 17th course.  At least they didn't charge us for parking!


There are a few prerequisites, though, before you can attend.  You must pick up a medical form at Service Ontario, take it to your doctor and pass the medical (only $40 each).   It's not covered by OHIP.  You need that form to write the 'D" test.  Then, you need a driver's abstract ($12 each) - also available at Service Ontario.


Now, armed with all this documentation, Bettyann and I show up at Durham College classroom 1-9 at 8AM on the 17th.  The lecture part of the course is 4 hours and that prepares you for the written test.  After that, if you've had a Tim's, were half awake during the lecture, and can fog a mirror you are going to pass the written test.


We finished at about 11:30AM, drove to the Driver testing location and by 12:30PM we had passed and were on our way to a patio to have lunch and a beer.   Oh a couple of more things - when we arrived at the Drive Test location, in Oshawa, we had to get an eye test and pay $85 each to actually take the test.   


So far, we haven't learned anything more we can actually use and we are out-of-pocket $1824 - thank you Dalton McGuinty! 


Now, with the driving test scheduled for July 11th, on to Driver Training in a 24' straight truck....

Kindle Mania

We purchased a KOBO eReader for our grand daughter for Christmas and helped one of our girls buy and set up a Kindle before we headed south for the winter.  Although we were aware of eReaders before then, this was our first really solid look at these things.  As a result, we thought we would integrate eReaders into our Computer classes and wow what a great reaction!

This is the first year we have done a class on eReaders and based on the number of Kindles that have been purchased since that first class it is also the most popular.

So, today we have another class to help those folks who purchased Kindles in the last week.  The Kindle is pretty easy to use but people have to deal with wireless connections, signing up with Amazon and how to get free books. 

It's not only Kindles though, purchases in the last two weeks (no class last week because of St Patrick's Day) have included at lease 2 iPad 2's, 1 Sony Reader, an Android Tablet and at least one KOBO.  Not only have they purchased these things for themselves many of those who made a purchase also ordered them for remote family members one as far away as Alaska.

I think today's class will be challenging.  I expect to even get questions I won't be able to answer.